American Humanist Association ads part 2

Regarding the recent AHA ads that display quotes from religious texts and then popular humanist-centric quotes. There is then a prompt to readers to; “Consider humanism”. How deliberately dishonest of an ad campaign because they fail at proper interpretation of the Bible and they fail at appropriately defining humanism as well with their bad interpretive principles. The correct reading of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 as I have already shown in the previous posts actually derives not just from it and Galatians context but there is even more context that remains consistent with the interpretation I laid out and yet again throws inconsistency at the face of AHA with their interpretation. I would like them to justify their implicit stance of the Bible being evil, and opposing woman as their website implies as well.

The other context is from Ephesians 5:28-39;

²⁸So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; ²⁹for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, ³⁰because we are members of His body.

Consider making up your own morals as a humanist in society? Or, let the framework of time tested, common sense religious text based ethics that demand high conduct stand? The choice is obvious to me.

DIJA up 200 points

Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 200 points. Why? Republican fiscal policy and certainty promised. That is why.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) rocketed more than 200 points skyward earlier today, blowing past the 11,400 level to hit its highest point since Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2008.

Of course the line in the lamestream media will be that Bernanke is responsible… Essentially this;

The blue chip barometer continues to draw strength from the Fed’s second round of quantitative easing, or QE2, in which the central bank has pledged to buy $600 billion in government bonds.

This is me, this is you, this is America!

America will be no more under Obama

Let the debate begin! Geopolicy Forums are LIVE!

*UPDATE*: Forum registration now fully functional! Sorry about the trouble… Now let the debate begin! :)

Forums are in effect. Bring it on, let the debate begin! There have been recent comments upon the nature of evolution within recent political debates. Perhaps we can start there?!

Either way, Click HERE and join the Geopolicy Forums! Be one of the first to start posting and debating, a most critical foundation of knowledge and science and to the long-lasting life of our republic.

Debate going down @ The Right Scoop

Here it is folks, an intense debate by yours truly, and commenter Dan_Tumser. This was sparked by Christine O’Donnell debate against Chris Coons dealing with teaching the theory of evolution. The Right Scoop has the Beck commentary in video form. O’Donnell was questioning Coons governing philosophy of not allowing states to control school curriculum.

Also, spark up debate in the comments here! Bring it on! This is what Conservatives do, we are not afraid of the ideas.

Some highlights:

Dan_Tumser responding to geopolicy (Tony):

From your language I have to ask if you accept the veracity of cladistic phylogenetics. If this is the case then where do you draw the line in the nested hierarchy separating the “kinds,” and “sorts?” By what basis do you do this and how is it not arbitrary?Responding;
1. Look at any phylogenetic “Tree of Life,” and taxonomic classifications combined with fossil aging, the strata they have been found in and genetic analysis. Working backwards, Homo Sapiens is found as a species of Hominoidea (apes) which is part of the Anthropoidea clade. Go further back and you hit Primates.You can’t outgrow your ancestry. If you accept cladistic phylogeny at all you will need to accept the monophyletic hierarchy, which with the studies I listed and more is constructed chronologically, morphologically and when we have access to the genome, genetically, and they all line up. 

The process of systematic classification set up by the hard-line creationist Carrolus Linneaus puts us both in the apes, which comes from monkeys, making us both. He knew and admitted this himself, his challenge to the scientific community was to find an explanation for this or refute it. It has not been refuted, the basics of his taxonomy are the basis of a much more detailed and extensive system today. What did happen though was the Theory of Evolution explains this perfectly.

If the word monkey means anything at all, you and I qualify, accept it.

2. There are multiple different kinds of Speciation actually, there isn’t only what you see with ring species. What you describe is Parapatric & Peripatric speciation, but you leave out Sympatric speciation, Phyletic speciation and Punctuated Equilibrium.

Your example of the frog and fish is absurd, what you describe would in fact disprove the Evolution you claim it would evidence. It’s essentially the same as asking for a Crocoduck, and I hope you don’t like Kirk Cameron. As I showed in my response to #1, you can’t outgrow your ancestry, a frog’s descendants will always be a frog just as we will always be apes. That’s how taxonomy works.

Evolution doesn’t say such radical changes happen in single generation, something like that would be so genetically disimilar to even it’s nearest relatives even hybridization would be impossible. Evolution happens over long periods of successive incremental changes. You know this, you are either strawmanning or are misinformed.

What you say actually happens is what I compared to walking 20ft, but for some reason you insist on a barrier with no evidence stopping species from reaching the 20miles.

3. Then explain to me the Design/creation explanations for Atavisms and the ERVs in our 3billion base pair genome that we share in common with other apes in the EXACT same places. Also the evidenced relationship of T-rex and modern Aves.

4. You essentially claim induction for design is sufficient over methological naturalism. It is a leap to supernatural causation. I don’t understand why people still rely on the Teleological Argument, Hume and Kant eviscerated it ages ago.

You seem to be operating under a misapprehension. “neo-darwinists,” if you are so fond of the word, don’t say that genetic drift and environmental pressures worked any differently in the past. You point to several things that are actually argued by people like myself and somehow claim that it is evidence against our side of the public debate (there is no debate among biologists).

There is nothing about Evolution that says a frog would give birth to something so radically different as a “fish” and not be a frog. That would disprove Evolution and be evidence for creation. You concede that new species can develop so I have to ask again in case it got lost in the rest of my post.

The textbooks of ID say that the designer poofs these basic archetypes into existence fully formed, so what are your definitions of the “kinds,” “sorts,” or archetypes? How far back in the phylogenetic record do you go to start work with your scissors and arbitrarily cut clades out to move them off to the side arising seperately.

Examples will do, since the wording would probably be pretty vague.

(I’m working on a paper while I write this, if that was unclear, please say so and I’ll edit or fix in another post)

Geopolicy – Tony response

2. You are all wrong. Speciation has several types which are; Allopatric, peripatric, sympatric, parapatric speciation types. All dealing with extremes of geographical isolation.
Punctuated Equilibria, or PE, is not a type of speciation. It is an attempt by Stephen Jay Gould to explain the observation of lack of gradualism in the fossil record originally proposed to be there by Darwin. Gould asserts that species can change instantaneously on geologic time scales (i.e thousands of years). Speciation is the mechanism, in its many forms that could have caused PE. PE is not speciation proper.
20 feet to 20 miles. OK fine, that is completely in line with creationist thinking because the thing walking 20 miles didn’t change drastically or come from the same single cell or whatever. To follow the logic further, many different base patterns walked 20 miles genetically developing similar conserved areas along the way through convergent evolution. Into what we can observe today.3. Its a biological evolution explanation not ID or creationist. The biological evolution process is called Convergent evolution. Convergent evolution causes the independent appearance of the same trait in different lineages.4. Methodological naturalism or the Scientific Method essentially, is used significantly with ID. That is how you derive that things were designed not spontaneously happening or created in the first place. ID determines things are guided, not unguided and spontaneously happening. 

4a. A frog has to give birth to something radically different after generations. If it doesn’t than how can we have one single common ancestor? Answer is, we don’t, we have poly base patterns and poly processes that formed the tree of life that we try to follow in the fossil record today with incredible neo-darwinist assumption and bias.

4b. No ID textbook ever states that the “designer poofs these basic archetypes.” You have to separate foundations of study and interpretation if you are to understand. That sentence I quoted from you is the origin of life discussion, centered on philosophy or theology of creationism. Frankly its pretty disrespectful how you present it as well…

Quick note… Now that we know we are dealing with philosophy and theology rather then scientific observation. God could of quite possibly utilized abiogenesis, designing it to create life out of nothing. You see there is a blending of philosophy/theology and science there, that is creationist language. So, to be scientific or like an ID theorist and not a creationist, the answer is: “abiogenesis was designed to happen.”

The use of language in that manner escapes otherwise intelligent scientists forcing them to commit philosophical bias within peer-reviewed science articles.

m_quick post

This is getting ridiculous. When Beck says ignoramus crap like this it discredits everything else he says. Rush and Beck (and probably a lot of conservatives) should just stop trying to talk about science.Seriously, he sounds like an idiot. No one says we evolved from monkeys. There are about 2 dozen “missing links” from a common ancestor of all primates to homo sapians. He can easily look this up. From Australopithecus to Homo habilis to Homo ergaster etc.We have google. There’s no excuse. 

geopolicy (Tony) response

Why do these different missing links have to prove one common ancestor? Why couldn’t there be two ancestors or many original ancestors, or can be called base patterns? Why can’t these missing links be either fully primate or fully human?

One ancestor for humans, and one ancestor for primates, etc, etc. These parallel lines of ancestry produce immense similarity because of convergent evolution. It does not show one common ancestor as the new-darwinists think but two independent common ancestries.

In what way is that scientifically inaccurate to posit that? It isn’t, it is inaccurate because it contradicts your neo-darwinist philosophy.

Somali pirates need to be stopped!

Voice of America News has an article about piracy hijacking and the statistical trends during the past five years. The main points are that attacks are increasing and their reach is exceeding that of traditional piracy routes we know of. In 203 hijackings either guns or knives were used and almost 800 hostages were taken. There have also been a rise in attacks within the South China Sea as well.

However Gulf of Aden attacks are down. A curious change but one that may correlate with the rise in South China Sea attacks. In other words, movement from traditional fronts of the Gulf of Aden, etc are moving to South China Sea, in  response to the setbacks by Philippines counter terrorism efforts, hammering against Abu Sayyaf “bearer of the sword”. The movements could coincide with reorganization of al shabab an al qaeda affiliate in Somalia.

Al shabab is a powerful force in Somalia that facilitates a safe haven for piracy. In 1969 a military coup led by Major General Muhammad Siad Barre initiated a socialist state that lasted until 1991. Northern clans established relatively stable rule, while the South turned into violent clashes by clans vying for power. Thousands of civilians were killed prompting the useless UN presence of which led to the tragic 1993 Battle of Mogadishu in which there was US fatalities. Transitional Federal Institutions since 2004 were in exile because of the threat of assassinations. All of this enables global Islamic terrorist organizations to supplant themselves and exorcise power as al shabab has done through Shariah law.

There is a counter insurgency grassroots movement called The Alliance of several warlords willing to attempt peace and stability. They fight back the violence of al shabab with some African Union help.

Rossi vs Murray second debate

Here is the second debate breakdown of Dino Rossi and Patty Murray for a seat in the Senate representing Washington, for October 17, 2010. The debate format was ridiculous and seemed like more news programming at times. It was laughable of the local news, channel 4 KOMO News. It was unprofessional to me and tired. Let the candidates speak I say, don’t waste my time with your slick little presentations of their ads, etc!

Dino Rossi and Patty Murray basically repeat the usual lines from the last debate. Same topics as well for the most part and rather boring. Patty Murray dodged a bit, Rossi got a few digs in during Social Security, but there was a lack of specifics overall. The winner? They both lost, because they both don’t seem to have specifics or want to elaborate on anything. Although on don’t ask don’t tell, Murray said she would vote for the repeal of that EVEN though it would have an adverse effect. Murray, a BIG mistake on that one.

Opening Remarks

Rossi: America in trouble. Course correction needed. Government overreach. Talked about family. Dino Rossi a bit more dynamic.

Murray: Says families struggling, she will be advocate. State is family and is working for investments.

If elected what will you do

Murray: Work to be peoples voice. Talks to community leaders for investments. Talked about Kent Valley damn example. Hanford mentioned again. Jobs are focus, don’t forget veterans. Responsible balancing of federal budget.

Rossi: Fiscal cliff. Hits China, I like! Stop reckless spending. He balanced biggest budget in state history with Democrat majority as example. 17.4% functional unemployment highlighted. Let small business be successful.

Murray rebut: Make sure families have investments by her presence in Senate. Work with small businesses. Tax cuts for middle income families.

Rossi rebut: Re-authorize 2001-2003 tax cuts including those that hurt small businesses. Rossi misspoke big time, Murray knew it.

How to get out of economic mess

Rossi: Looking in eyes of men that are unemployed. Create an atmosphere friendly to certainty for businesses. Re-authorize tax cuts. Give bussinesses oppurtunity to plan. Modest taxation, reliable regulation, let em chase the American dream.

Murray: Families know people unemployed and struggling. Works hard to talk to community leaders. South Park bridge, Murray bringing money to that community. Says Rossi won’t fight for you in that way. Says no credit available.

Rossi rebut: Federal government only creates temporary jobs, takes away from private sector. Stimulus jobs costs 320,000 dollars for each one. Talking about what works for a long-time, unemployment high so stimulus failed.

Murray: Goes to work sites. Rossi will fire private sector employees.

Federal deficit – where to cut and be specific

Murray: Cut 14 billion from President’s budget. Freeze her own pay, no new buildings for secretary of hud. Claims Rossi wants to follow Bush economic agenda. Can make tough cuts, can’t promise tax cuts to wealthy.

Rossi: Earmarks. Murray changed over 18 years. Murray did not cut budget and number 9 in earmarks which now contribute to her. Hitting her with examples left and right. Ban earmarks until budget balanced.

Murray rebut: Didn’t hear balanced budget, when he did say it.

Rossi rebut: Second coming of Ronald Regan, but she isn’t. Already has earmarks for next year. Does one thing in DC does another at home.

Health care

Same responses. Rossi came off a bit better.

Immigration – what to do with children born and raised

Rossi: Secure the border first, cannot entertain anything else.

Murray: Northern border highlighted.

Rossi rebut: Open to ideas for what to do with people born here.

blah, blah, blah

Bernanke wants more action!

Reuters recently released an article detailing what was said by the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke during his talks at the Financial Stability Oversight Council. What the article doesn’t tell you is that these meetings and this oversight council, were happening and created respectively for the H.R.4173 – Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. The bill was passed in the House of Representatives in 2009 and was effectively signed into law July 21, 2010. The Financial Stability Oversight Council (FSOC) also studies and reports on the effects of the regulations by the Consumer Financial Protection Agency (CFPA).

Bernanke warned a prolonged period of high unemployment could choke off the U.S. recovery and that the low level of inflation presented an uncomfortable risk of deflation, a dangerous downward slide in prices.

“There would appear — all else being equal — to be a case for further action,” Bernanke said at a conference sponsored by the Boston Federal Reserve Bank.

With overnight interest rates already close to zero, many economists expect the Fed to launch a fresh round of bond purchases, perhaps on the order of $500 billion, to push borrowing costs lower at its next policy meeting on November 2-3.

Prices for longer-dated U.S. government debt fell after Bernanke’s remarks as investors bet the Fed would be successful in generating more inflation. Stocks were mixed while the dollar briefly hit an eight-month low against the euro.

Rossi vs Murray Debate

Here is a run-down for those who didn’t see it. Dino Rossi and Patty Murray debate October 14, 2010. I have below accumulated the debates finer points. Overall I think Rossi won, but not by much, both need a more dynamic attitude.

Opening Remarks

Dino Rossi: Need course correction, America in trouble. Very gracious.

Patty Murray: My family is hurting, I can get country back on track. We can work together.

Iraq

Dino Rossi: Gives context of pre 9/11, and defines nature of evil somewhat. Agrees with Obama on Patreus, but not on date certain for withdraw of troops. Give military what they need.

Patty Murray: I saw Pentagon. Republicans and Democrats came together. Have been in Afghanistan for to long, tell America how we are fighting. Karzai not good partner. Ummm, the question was about Iraq specifically, Murray goes into Afghanistan.

Rossi rebut: Karzai and Taliban meeting highlighted. Cautiously optimistic on it.

Murray rebut: Says Rossi supports supporting tax cuts for wealthy, says troops deserve more. How are we paying for the wars.

Jobs for Washington

Murray: Important question. Fights for investments, about campuses and health care. Went to Washington DC for investment. Says they are targeted investments.

Rossi: 17.4% unemployment in Washington. Rossi is small business. Says people won’t expand businesses because of climate government created. Murray adjourns before tax cuts were dealt with. More spending for jobs with Murray.

Murray rebut: Repeat.

Rossi rebut: Stability needed, Murray doesn’t get it. Don’t punish success with high tax rates.

Nuclear waste clean-up and federal budget

Rossi: Cuts to federal budget needed. Worked to balance budget without raising taxes, and dissected budget. End stimulus, 275 billion. Reducing federal employment to pre-Obama levels.

Murray: Talks about moral and legal obligation about Hanford waste. Part of our defense. 3,000 people employed stimulus cleaning Hanford.

Rossi rebut:  Obama to shut down Yukka mountain. Murray silent on Yukka.

Murray rebut:  Priority of Hanford, she takes it on.

Social Security

Murray: Important programs for seniors and disabled. Never privatize Social Security. Obamacare good for Medicare cause of fraud. Within the budget. No specifics just general values.

Rossi: Social Security as piggy bank by Democrats. Threat is debt that Murray helped build up. Can’t pay back. Murray raised taxes on Social Security. Murray is double-speaking. Murray cut medicare by 500 billion.

Murray rebut: Extend Bush tax cuts is bad.

Rossi rebut: Murray raised taxes on SS. Murray reduce spending on Medicare by 500 billion, will impact seniors.

Obamacare – Republicans repeal, Democrat reading bill

Rossi: 695 dollar fine if you don’t buy Obamacare, 500 billion cut to Medicare. Boeing 150 million having to pay, many jobs not created because of it. Let people be customer, won’t add to debet, etc.

Murray: Murray read it and wrote some of it. Families struggling, deserve to choose plan and doctor. Control costs increase access. Talks about stack of papers yet releases a bill that is stacks of paper… Irony much?

Rossi rebut: Sold a plan to reduce cost and increase access, businesses are paying more. Can’t keep health care, Murray voted against that specifically. Double-speak Murray.

Murray rebut: Heard talking points. Kids and seniors are cared for, so Rossi is bad.

Don’t ask don’t tell repeal

Rossi: Its working. Waiting on report and commanders, military has to say first. He will listen.

Murray: Sponsor of repeal. Talks to military vets who say they support who wants to serve in military.

College tuition

Murray: She knows how people feel. Family worked hard. Student loans, Murray voted against bank involvement. Federal government responsibility for everybody to go to college.

Rossi: Youngest of 7, raised on public teacher salary. He worked hard. Grants and student loans he supports. Make sure loans are available more generally.

Murray rebut: Will Rossi agree with Murray about banks not being involved. Money go to students.

Rossi rebut: Students need more options. Limited options because of government

Amnesty to illegals

Rossi: Big issue. Complete federal government failure. No amnesty. Control of borders, tall fence with high gate, physical barrier. Know who is here to chase American dream and worker programs.

Murray:  Comprehensive immigration reform. Talked to farmers, clear laws needed. Protect borders, south and north. Make sure kids have place to work. Pathway to citizenship, fine, learning English.

Rossi rebut: Murray approves of amnesty. Secure border.

Murray rebut: Rossi forgot he voted for amnesty form. Comprehensive immigration reform needed, farmers need security and border.

Mudslinging in advertisements what do they approve of each other

Murray: Applaud Rossi by getting into race. Rossi heart and passion. Supreme Court decision worries her.

Rossi: Murray does good work with veterans. His ad was the truth.

Partisan gap bridging

Rossi: Hallmark of what he did as State Senator. Democrats controlled, Locke was governor. Put together blanced budget that was bi-partisan. Murray working with majority, her suport of partisan bills.

Murray: Washington comes first. Bush tried to close vet hospitals, she fought for them. Obama went against vet health care, she went after him. Hanford, she takes on both Republicans and Democrats. Will work with anyone apparently.